Probably the most consistent theme of conservative Christianity is the concept of a personal relationship with Jesus.
I have never understood this.
The emphasis on personal makes sense within the context of traditional Baptist theology. It’s drawn from our emphasis on piety and responsibility. But against the larger Christian tradition, it doesn’t resonate so well. Surely the community matters as much if not more than the individuals within it. Consider that the Prayer starts with Our Father . . . and the Creed begins We believe. It seems to me the community is more important than the individual. Why do we place so much emphasis on the personal?
My strongest sense of God’s presence comes in group settings, primarily worship, and particularly at Communion. The experience of Christianity isn’t about me. It’s about us.
The relationship part sometimes makes no sense. I have relationships with several people. All of these are characterized by two-way interactions. But I don’t have a two-way interaction with Jesus Christ, at least not in the ordinary sense of the word “interaction.” I don’t hear voices, and I don’t recognize impulses or emotional reactions as messages from Jesus. (That’s not to say your experiences are mere impulses. I’m talking about my experiences.) I don’t believe an invisible person is walking next to me, guiding me or helping me. Yet these seem to be characteristics of the relationship emphasized by the conservative Christians I’ve known through the years.
One might say that relationship means simply a connection or an association. Certainly I have an “association” with Jesus Christ. It’s partly historical. Jesus is the focal point of a religious movement that has had a profound effect, for better or worse, on world history. But even atheists have this same historical connection to Jesus. I also have a connection to Jesus as an object of study. Jesus’ words and actions form the basis of our faith. We study them. We try to emulate him. Of course, we fail. But we also study others. Consider Thomas Jefferson, for example. If Thomas Jefferson is the object of my study, and I make an effort to emulate him (a worthy effort, to be sure), then I have a connection with Thomas Jefferson. One might say I have a relationship with Thomas Jefferson. In the right context, such a statement could make perfect sense. But then Jefferson is like Jesus, and this is surely not what my conservative Christian friends mean by a relationship with Jesus.
So, for those who claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus, I have some sincere questions.
- What characterizes your relationship with Jesus? If you talk to him (prayer), does he talk back? In what manner?
- How do you understand the personal nature of your relationship with Jesus? How is your relationship with Jesus different from that of the guy sitting next to you? If your relationship with Jesus is fundamentally identical to his relationship with Jesus, then in what sense is it personal?
- How do you understand your relationship in the context of Trinitarian theology? Do you also have a relationship with the Holy Spirit? With God the Father?
- Because my experience is different from your own, and since I apparently have a different kind of relationship with Jesus compared to your own, do you believe I’m going to hell?
“I have read in Plato and Cicero sayings that are very wise and very beautiful; but I never read in either of them: ‘Come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden.’” – St. Augustine
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ” – Romans 8:9
As you’ve noted, technically the phrase “personal relationship” can be reduced down to a unidirectional connection between one person and one object, tangible or intangible. Perhaps the conservative Christian would be more correct in using the phrase “interpersonal relationship”, a dynamic relationship between two individuals, to avoid the confusion and potential misunderstanding. I believe an interpersonal relationship is what Paul had in mind when he made the deep and intimate relationship between husband and wife analogues to the relationship between Christ and His Church in Ephesians 5 and is only possible because Christ is in fact a living person, not a historically dead man.
Because Christ is Spirit and resides within the believer, the relationship is also intrapersonal in its nature. Logical? Reasonable?
“For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.” – 1 Corinthians 2:11-14
To answer your questions, from my experience:
1. I pray internally, sometimes pray aloud, sometimes scream, sometimes weep, and I sometimes have nothing to say. I listen for God’s response through the direction of my thoughts, reading his word, feelings and emotions, and getting input from other believers. I also look for his work in the circumstance of my life and the opportunities uniquely afforded to me, which are tailored instances in which God shows me he is present and in control.
2. My relationship is not easily described and is unique. It is only similar to the guy sitting next to me (assuming he is a believer) in that it is unique.
3. God is one and my relationship is with the one God who has expressed himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
4. “But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” – Romans 10:6-13
Clinton,
It appears you might be taking some quotes or ideas from this article: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/persrel.html.
Correct?
These are familiar ideas, and I’m sure they form the basis of legitimate religious experiences for millions of believers.
I don’t wish to make any objection to these concepts. My goals are to understand and to be understood.
Yes sir, I found the presentation of “personal relationship” and “interpersonal relationship”, as well as the comparison to marraige, very well put on this site and used it to form my response, prior to answering the questions you’ve asked.
Does this prompt you to dismiss my response?
I am interested in your thoughts concerning the whole of the text on the link, it seems spot on to me.
Clint
I’m not dismissing anything, but I’m not looking to be converted to a different point of view. Fowler’s ideas are familiar, and several of his concepts make sense. They don’t provide a perfect description of my experience, but they’re not incomprehensible to me. I think I can agree with much of what he says.
A “biblical man” has his duties you know.
;)
Thanks for the stimulating dialog Rodney, I am interested to see what others will contribute.
Clint
The minute I started reading, the word “Marketing” flashed in my mind.
Did you know that there is a marketing scheme called Customer relationship Management (CRM)? The point of it is to make the client feel as if they have a personal relationship with the organization. One aspect of it is providing you with a particular person to see to your needs e.g. Your personal banker.
I don’t I need to elaborate on how Christianity uses the “personal relationship” with Jesus as a marketing scheme. It’s quite obvious.
Hello!
Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language ;)
See you!
Your, Raiul Baztepo
After reading some of your stuff here, and not just this particular subject matter, I would like to answer your question 4. this way: Yes.
Thanks, Gary. You’re a credit to fundamentalism. Don’t come back.
i dont have a relationship with jesus because here is something i have thought about alot
turn it around
does he have a relationship with me?
everything has 2 sides
it takes 2 to be in a relationship
or friendship
this word relationship is really bothering me
to me relationship is dating and or marriage
to me frienship is not relationship at all
all i know
i have never met jesus
never had an encounter with him
then again where on earth would i and that not being sarcastic
jesus was born 2009 year ago
33 years later he died
rose again and ascended
my thing is this
where in the bible exactly
and not this its implied nonsense
i need book chapter and verse that literally states a relationship with jesus
because so far in my life
i have heard 0
john 316 mentions nothing about relationship with jesus
again
it takes two to be in relationship
why does it seem a friendship
or wahtever is very one sided
jesus doesnt talk with me
nothing
not a word
i read the bible somewhat
never felt he was talking to me ever
not once
hmm jesus needs to speak for himself
not christians
who make me want to be an atheist just to be as completely opposite as they are
Hi Kathryn, St. John 17:21, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father,art in me, and I in thee, that they also; m;ay be one in us; that the world may believe on me through the truth”
I too struggled with this, in fact when I googles this I thought it was an old blog of mine
I agree with evey word – I’m not in a relationship and here’s the key word WITH – it takes 2
1 is not a relationship !!! Jesus doesn’t talk to me at all – it’s not because Im not listening as some insist which I think is foolish and dumb – nothing to listen to – where did the idea he walks. and talks with us – many hymns suggest that but those are just song lyrics – not scripture!! – it wouid be great if he talked to me
but he doesn’t – he doesn’t speak to me thru bible either because he didn’t write it !!!
men – I do care- wrote it and clearly see many personal opinons and lots of history – who begot who doesn’t help me – Jesus does not guide me in any form – I’m not stopping him or not lettng him- nothing to stop !!! I know of Jesus about what he did but I dint know him- reading about him is not knowing him – just knowing about him
taking someone elses word for it too
i appreciate your honesty. but i feel the Jesus has the answer for your question.
Hi rodney
my stream of thoughts run parrallel to you. i understand your struggle. but man cn’t answer you. go to Jesus in prayer and ask him. He alone can answer you. until he answers you don’t leave him. i too am asking answers for these questions from him.
“until he answers you don’t leave him.”
Are you serious?
Ya! that’s the type of tenacity we need when we are seeking a major truth. we need to keep ourselves in the track. if we ask such questions one day and forget about that the next day, we may not qualify.
Sundar Singh of India, who burnt New Testament was searching the truth and had an encounter with Jesus. He later became a Christian Sadhu to proclaim the good news of Jesus. If you are honest and patient in your search definitely God will answer you.
“If you are honest and patient in your search definitely God will answer you.”
I can’t believe you’re serious about this.
Certainly I’m sympathetic to theistic belief, but if God ignores my existence, why should I not ignore his? Why do I have to do all the work in this “relationship?” He’s GOD. Can’t he participate just a little bit?
Having a “personal relationship” with Jesus begins with accepting Jesus as your personal Savior. Accepting that He died on the Cross to forgive your sin, repenting and asking forgiveness for sin. Once that is genuinely done then the personal relationship begins.
I have no idea if you are going to hell or not. God is clear if your name is not in the Book of Life, then you are. He is clear that repentance and acceptance of Jesus Death and Resurrection is the way to get your name into the Book of Life. Have you repented, asked forgiveness and accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior? Your answer to my question will give you your answer to #4.
It really is THAT simple….
My relationship with Jesus is personal. It began 34 years ago, its had good times, bad times, great times and silent times. But its always been there. I remember the day I met Jesus like it was yesterday. That was the day I realized that He died for me, it was the day I realized I was a sinner and needed Him and I accepted His gift of Salvation.
Its a gift, and until you accept His gift, you will never have a personal relationship with Him and you’ll never understand what a personal relationship with Him is. I pray now that you do accept Him and begin to be amazed by the personal relationship He has with you.
You’re taking this in all wrong, it’s more like HIS personal relationship with YOU. Not MY personal relationship with HIM. That’s how it should be, & thoses two statements have completely diffrent meanings. Jesus IS the Reason.